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     WolfenStein Server :: Whats it got?
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Whisky
Posted on: 2012/4/15 14:35

Joined: 2011/5/25
From: SouthWest UK
Posts: 2392
Re: WolfenStein Server :: Whats it got?
Killing Floor perk progression has never been linear, always exponential. 10-20-40-80-160 as opposed to 10-20-30-40-50.

If you don't like the weapons then don't use them, problem solved.

As for perk progression, Hemi and I discussed this morning and on other occasions. High level perks destroy balance unless you completely rewrite the perks and then the bonus between levels is negligible. So the perks were reduced to something not so over the top, and the requirements scaled back up to 50% of base rather than the previous 15% of base.


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Hemi
Posted on: 2012/4/15 14:39

Joined: 2010/2/4
From: The Netherlands
Posts: 5133
Re: WolfenStein Server :: Whats it got?
amen and live with it


----------------
"Resume your disorder..."

CarmeTaika
Posted on: 2012/4/15 20:50

Joined: 2011/11/9
From:
Posts: 57
Re: WolfenStein Server :: Whats it got?
With that .15 and .5 thing if I understand it right, could we get a compromise for '.35' because right now post-nerf I sit at 1.1m AR damage and am only level 4 Rifleman needing another 650,000 AR Damage for level 5.

In a server that doesn't cap at 6 like the original game, this is far too sharp of an increase.

And by linear progression, I meant with how before (no idea now, though.)
the nerf last night; Level 5->6 took +300k AR damage and Level 6-7 took +50k AR damage.
That's not consistent and if there's anything like that in the new model, it needs to die in a fire.
Solution: Look at your starting level and your end level, set level 20 to require 20M damage if it's higher than that, if it's lower than that, please inform me what it's actually set to.

Then, make it scale to any mathematical formula that shows growth over levels, not seeming randomization.

Example:
I didn't invest much time into this one, but it's growth rate is something like 1.2x previous = next. with some rounding up/down to make the numbers all even.
It's imperfect, but you get the idea.

Level 1: 260,000 AR Damage.
Level 2: 336,000 AR Damage.
Level 3: 420,000 AR Damage.
Level 4: 528,000 AR Damage.
Level 5: 660,000 AR Damage.
Level 6: 820,000 AR Damage.
Level 7: 1,024,000 AR Damage.
Level 8: 1,280,000 AR Damage.
Level 9: 1,600,000 AR Damage.
Level 10: 2,120,000 AR Damage.
Level 11: 2,640,000 AR Damage.
Level 12: 3,320,000 AR Damage.
Level 13: 4,160,000 AR Damage.
Level 14: 5,200,000 AR Damage.
Level 15: 6,500,000 AR Damage.
Level 16: 8,200,000 AR Damage.
Level 17: 10,240,000 AR Damage.
Level 18: 12,800,000 AR Damage.
Level 19: 16,000,000 AR Damage.
Level 20: 20,000,000 AR Damage.


The point of playing Killing Floor is teamwork and coordination to survive, not grinding perks and then quitting.
Grinding perks is a necessary evil because the game is supposed to have different difficulty levels where it's more appropriate to be at different points on the level chart for them.

Yet Hell on Earth is the most fun once you have a bunch of people together with perks just shy of max or all max level, you're not likely to survive an entire wave solo when it had other people in it who died, without both great skill and being at/very near the maximum perk level the game offers.

No amount of player skill will make a bullet suddenly do 10% more damage or make their guns reload faster with more ammo loaded per magazine.

You should encourage people to reach the maximum level by making it reachable within reason, then put up servers across the difficulty scale when possible, so the high levels have a place to remain challenged by the game without making the game impossible for people still leveling.

P.S. Hemi, add me on Steam so I can talk to you/invite you to games periodically and stuff. Why are you avoiding it?
HalfDemon
Posted on: 2012/4/15 21:11

Joined: 2011/5/24
From: Moray, Scotland
Posts: 334
Re: WolfenStein Server :: Whats it got?
Quote:
The point of playing Killing Floor is teamwork and coordination to survive, not grinding perks and then quitting


The point of playing Killing Floor is to have fun.
CarmeTaika
Posted on: 2012/4/15 21:39

Joined: 2011/11/9
From:
Posts: 57
Re: WolfenStein Server :: Whats it got?
The objective of the game being possible tends to make a thing more fun.
When you die because things have just too much health, not because their health is unfair but because your bullets could be doing more damage, without any change in how skilled you are as a human being; it drives you to want the next level so that your bullets will do the damage necessary to win.

But that can also be a barrier to fun in that say you're nowhere near the highest level where you know you're just going to have to be a better player or find a team of good players to win; and the next level is numerous hours of gameplay away from you.

Numerous hours between levels is something to reserve for the levels at the high end, not the middle.

Also I don't spawn with an MP40 being level 4 now with being wound back from level 7 in the level requirements being so drastically changed.
This means that I can't as easily get to work on my level and makes me want to play the Deadspace mod, not the Wolfenstein mod, because my level 4 EarthGov Marine can get me training Assault Rifle damage immediately when I spawn in.
Hemi
Posted on: 2012/4/15 22:20

Joined: 2010/2/4
From: The Netherlands
Posts: 5133
Re: WolfenStein Server :: Whats it got?
Im avoiding you cous its a never ending fight, that im not going to win...and you dont want to listen. Here are the facts :

1. This is a clan that plays for fun
2. The modding is done on the side
3. Non profit, so we dont have to bother with people demanding stuff cous they donated.
4. If you dont like the mod, please leave.
5. Appreciate the mods for what they are.
6. We dont endlessly adjust the servers, cous we have lives.
7. Im not here to make YOUR life better. Just my friends and fellow clanmates. Cous I like the way they communicate with me. Yunno...constructive...instead of "I dont like it...remove it!"

Enjoy it for what it is, and if I feel like it I will adjust it. You have clearly no idea how the perk mod works seeing these posts, so stick with what you know...like playing the game or something. Adding to that is if I would do these adjustments the game will break and the WPC doesnt run servers just for you.

People like the mod, even after the nerf...so this convoy is over

Hemi out

edit : then go play on the deadspace server. We dont mind. They are all linked for a reason...and that reason is to have fun and choose how to do it.


----------------
"Resume your disorder..."

Kar
Posted on: 2012/4/15 22:55

Joined: 2012/3/15
From: Sokrovenno
Posts: 67
Re: WolfenStein Server :: Whats it got?
Carme, I respect you coming into the server and testing out the weapons and the perks, etc. It's nice to get feedback, but as I've told you twice before
There is a fine line between feedback and complaining.

Every time I have played a game with you, I have heard a complaint, or what you call "feedback". Out of all the people who frequent the Wolfenstein server, you are the one who gives the most "feedback".

Please give it a rest. As Hemi mentioned, it's not updated everyday, and not updated for just one person.

How long has the server been up? A week? Not even?

Give it more time, stop with the "feedback", and above all, be patient.

Things will gradually be fixed with time. If you don't like the XP requirements...go play in the Dead Space server, or my favorite: The Classic Modded server.

If you don't like the ideas that Mr. Hemi has for the server, the Close button is located in the top right hand corner of your browser.

I hope to see you in game again, and if not, farewell and take care.


----------------
"Ah ah...no more judo, and no more field strips."


CarmeTaika
Posted on: 2012/4/15 23:32

Joined: 2011/11/9
From:
Posts: 57
Re: WolfenStein Server :: Whats it got?
Comments like
"Enjoy it for what it is, and if I feel like it I will adjust it. You have clearly no idea how the perk mod works seeing these posts, so stick with what you know...like playing the game or something. Adding to that is if I would do these adjustments the game will break and the WPC doesnt run servers just for you. "

Are frustrating because, yes, I don't know how the modding side works; but you're slamming the door on me when I'm criticizing it, instead of offering me some documentation to read up on so future criticism is more useful to you.

I have reasons for the things I don't like, I'm not saying "Omg it's impossible to level, raaaaagequit."
I'm saying: "The levels, for the benefit they provide are too steep in progress rate; here's what I think would make it more balanced."
...Sorry if I sound demanding and/or ignorant in some fields, but bumping off criticism because I don't know how something works doesn't help me to offer better feedback in the future.

So, if you could link me to some documentation on the perk editing, perhaps I could educate myself and know what it takes to adjust it and come up with a model to offer up for your review.

I am trying to help make the mod better, not just for me, but for all the people who want to play it, enjoy it and get past wave 3 or 4 in the now 7-waves length game.
Hemi
Posted on: 2012/4/16 7:39

Joined: 2010/2/4
From: The Netherlands
Posts: 5133
Re: WolfenStein Server :: Whats it got?
But the people who play it like it...


----------------
"Resume your disorder..."

CarmeTaika
Posted on: 2012/4/16 9:13

Joined: 2011/11/9
From:
Posts: 57
Re: WolfenStein Server :: Whats it got?
If I didn't like it, I'd not be trying so hard to offer criticism to help shape it.
I just think the change from .15 to .5 scale was too harsh.
So I think that everyone would be happy with a .35 rate compromise between the two...

It's longer than .15 but not as long as .5, which would take several days of concentrated grinding to achieve.

...Additionally, adding voted difficulty level into the 'Game Mode' box on the map vote would be awesome for when people have levels of 15-20 to play, survive and enjoy the challenge of say, Suicidal or Hell on Earth difficult level versions of the mod.

That way it can be voted down for low level perked players to have a chance at it and voted up for people with high perks to be challenged by it.
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